ARI SHAPIRO, HOST:
Former first lady Michelle Obama is saying no more often. This year, she skipped both the inauguration of President Trump and the funeral of former President Jimmy Carter. Those decisions drew some scrutiny in the press. Obama sat down with NPR's Rachel Martin recently, and the former first lady said she is finally at a stage in life where she feels like all of her choices are her own.
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MICHELLE OBAMA: One of the major decisions I made this year - to stay put and not attend funerals and inaugurations and all the things that I'm supposed to. But that was a part of me, you know, using my ambition to say, let me define what...
RACHEL MARTIN: Yeah.
OBAMA: ...I want to do...
MARTIN: Yeah.
OBAMA: ...Apart from what I'm supposed to do, what the world expects of me. And I had - I have to own that. Those are my choices. Whatever the backlash was, I had to sit in it and own it.
MARTIN: Yeah.
OBAMA: But I didn't regret it, you know?
MARTIN: Yeah, 'cause it's your life.
OBAMA: It's my life now. And I can say that now. But we'll see. There may - maybe next year, we sit down. I go, you know, Rachel (laughter), went a little too far.
(LAUGHTER)
MARTIN: I'm going to rein it back in.
OBAMA: I'm going to rein it back in.
SHAPIRO: One of the platforms that Michelle Obama is using to define who she is now is a new podcast with her brother. It's called "IMO With Michelle Obama And Craig Robinson." They share stories of growing up together, talk to famous guests and offer advice to listeners. She says the timing made sense after the death of her mother, Marian Robinson.
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OBAMA: It's been a year, just a month ago, since my mother passed.
MARTIN: I'm sorry.
OBAMA: And we were starting to have these conversations a little bit. But I think once my mom passed and the notion of doing something with my brother...
MARTIN: Yeah.
OBAMA: ...You know, where we would be forced to see each other on a regular basis became a big motivator - right?
MARTIN: Yeah.
OBAMA: ...To carry on just the tradition of family that you lose when you lose the last elder.
MARTIN: Yeah.
OBAMA: It's also that time in life where Craig and I looked at each other, and we're like, well, we're it.
MARTIN: Yeah.
OBAMA: We are the elders in our family - right? - and kind of realizing, well, let's step up because, you know, look, we were blessed with a lot of wisdom and a lot of unique perspectives from two parents who are no longer here, and a lot of people didn't have that. So we have an opportunity to keep their memory and that wisdom alive and then to share it with others who may not have that same kind of support system.
SHAPIRO: Michelle Obama joined Rachel Martin on NPR's Wild Card podcast, where guests answer big questions about their life drawn from a deck of cards. And Obama opened up about knowing that the time she has left is limited.
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OBAMA: You know, as we get older, you know, look (laughter) - and my husband thinks this is morbid - but at 61, you know, if I am lucky, if I am truly blessed, I'm, like, 25 more summers.
MARTIN: Oh, yeah, I do that math all the time.
OBAMA: Yeah.
MARTIN: (Laughter)
OBAMA: You know?
MARTIN: And I measure out how old my kids are...
OBAMA: Yeah.
MARTIN: ...Against that, and...
OBAMA: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because if you're not mindful about time, you know - like, 10 years - we've been out of office for 10 years.
MARTIN: Right.
OBAMA: What happened?
MARTIN: (Laughter).
OBAMA: What happened to those 10 years, you know? I mean, it's like, what - I did a lot, right? I mean, two, three books...
MARTIN: Yeah.
OBAMA: ...Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. There's a lot that happened, but (snaps fingers) it went by fast. And I'm at the stage of life where I want the next 10 years to go by slowly...
MARTIN: Yeah.
OBAMA: ...'Cause guess what? I love life. I love my life. I love life. But if you - what I feel is that if I'm not mindful about it, the years slip away, and you wind up spending a year doing what? Did you do anything you wanted to? Did you spend time with the people that you wanted to spend time with, doing the things that you wanted to do? And there's a part and time in life for all young people where you just don't have that luxury 'cause you're grinding and growing and building. You haven't earned it yet - right? - and you should be out there doing and shaking and baking and...
MARTIN: Yep.
OBAMA: But with 25 more summers, I want to know - I want to feel each one of them.
MARTIN: I know.
OBAMA: I want to be like, whoo, this year. Whoo, this was slow.
MARTIN: (Laughter).
OBAMA: Just, like, I didn't do much of anything. Did I accomplish anything?
MARTIN: You got to go to Hawaii more for that slow life.
OBAMA: I got bored, and I was like, oh, I read another book. Oh, it took forever (laughter).
MARTIN: Do you think you're comfortable with real slowness, though? Like, do you think that's...
OBAMA: Yes.
MARTIN: Oh, you are. OK (laughter).
OBAMA: Oh, yes, I am. And a day of nothing is one of those nice slow days where you look up and go, oh, man, it's only noon.
MARTIN: Yeah.
OBAMA: I want more of those because I want these last 25 summers to feel long and purposeful and mine, not because I've given that time away, and I looked up and it's all gone, I've given it all away to everybody else, and I don't even know what was left for me.
MARTIN: Right.
OBAMA: And so I think all of that is a part of thinking about death.
MARTIN: Totally.
OBAMA: You know? And when it comes, look, I'm not afraid of it, but...
MARTIN: You're not?
OBAMA: No. I - I'm not. But let me tell you, one thing that was interesting to me - and I think you're the first person I share this with publicly - is, like, the last year of my mom's life, she got - she was sick. Her body was just shutting down for a number of various reasons. And her last bout of illness, she was with me in Hawaii, in our home in Hawaii, which was a blessing - right? - 'cause she was forced to let me take care of her (laughter).
MARTIN: She didn't want it.
OBAMA: Oh, my God.
MARTIN: She didn't want to be a burden, right?
OBAMA: She didn't want to be a burden, and ooh, did I - I had doctors and nurses and everybody coming in. And we had her diet and this, and I was bossing her around. And she was mad, and she was, I just want to go home. And it's like, but you can't. You're stuck with me. You know, I could just take care of her.
MARTIN: Yeah.
OBAMA: And she got better and went back to Chicago. But we were sitting on the couch watching one of her court shows, 'cause she liked court shows, and she was realizing that, you know, she might - she will not ever be the same old self that she was.
MARTIN: Yeah.
OBAMA: She was starting to realize she's coming to the end. And this woman that prepared me for death - right? - and talked to me about all this stuff and was like, I'm ready to die. Who needs to be old? People are around too long. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. She leaned over to me, and she said, wow, this went fast. And I held her hand. I said, what are you talking about? And she said, life. She said, this went fast. And this was the woman who was ready. And what that told me was that even when you tell yourself you're ready, if you're living a good life, you're never really ready for it to end, right?
MARTIN: Yeah.
OBAMA: So I hope I feel that way - even though I will be ready for it, you know, because it's been good and purposeful - that I'll feel like I wish I had more time.
MARTIN: Yeah.
OBAMA: So I'm trying to live my life like that, you know?
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SHAPIRO: You can watch that full conversation by following Wild Card with Rachel Martin on YouTube. And you can listen to Michelle Obama's new podcast, "IMO With Michelle Obama And Craig Robinson," now.
(SOUNDBITE OF MUSIC) Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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