SCOTT DETROW, HOST:
For global fans of the beautiful game, the FIFA World Cup cannot come soon enough, but alas, it is not until next year. So instead, many have been glued to the FIFA Club World Cup, which has been taking place across the U.S. over the past few weeks, providing a dress rehearsal at various stadiums for next year's big events. The final is tomorrow in New Jersey, between the English team Chelsea F.C. and the French giant Paris Saint-Germain, PSG for short. President Trump is expected to be there. Paul Tenorio is a writer for The Athletic. He has been looking at the culture of soccer in America and joins us now. Welcome back to ALL THINGS CONSIDERED.
PAUL TENORIO: Thanks so much for having me.
DETROW: I want to start with the head of FIFA, President Gianni Infantino, who was the architect of this club competition. What do we know about his relationship with President Trump, and why does that matter for the next few years?
TENORIO: Well, he has a very cozy relationship with President Trump. We've seen him several times in the Oval Office meeting with the president. Obviously, he invited him to the final on Sunday. FIFA just announced that they've opened up an office in Trump Tower in New York.
And this is kind of the way Gianni Infantino has managed his time as president of FIFA. He had a close relationship with Vladimir Putin ahead of the 2018 World Cup in Russia. He lived in Qatar and had a good relationship with the Qatari government - has a good relationship with the Qatari government - ahead of the World Cup in 2022. We've seen this pattern now with Trump and as well with the Saudi royal family ahead of a World Cup that's expected to be in Saudi Arabia in 2034. So Gianni Infantino has certainly found a way to kind of use his power as the head of FIFA to create these political connections, which he sees to benefit FIFA in many ways.
DETROW: Obviously, the World Cup is this enormous global event that often kind of drowns out any sort of scandal that might be leading up to it, as was the case the last two countries that you mentioned. What about this thing this year, though, this Club World Cup? Would you call it a success?
TENORIO: I think it was a really good idea poorly executed. What I love about the Club World Cup is that it's provided a stage for teams from outside of the typical European giants that we see on the biggest stages in club soccer. So the Champions League, for example - that is the most important tournament in club soccer. Well, only European teams can participate. That tournament is run by UEFA. And I thought it was wonderful to see the passion of the South American teams, the African teams, the Asian teams that took part in this tournament, to see a Brazilian club, Fluminense, advance as far as they did, to the semifinals of the tournament. You know, that was the goal of this tournament.
But the actual execution in the United States, there were so many things that went wrong. The pricing of the tickets that I thought priced out fans and led to empty stadiums, where if you had made it more accessible, you could have had a chance to grow the game, to reach more people and to maybe bring people in so that they'd be excited for the World Cup next summer. Certainly, I think the rapid way that this tournament was thrown together and the focus on the commercial benefits and looking for the TV money at the highest possible prices - even the way they talk about the tournament, as though it has superseded the Champions League in its importance in global football, is a bit silly and, I think, misses the mark. So...
DETROW: Yeah.
TENORIO: ...The idea behind the tournament - wonderful. The execution, I thought, needs a lot of work.
DETROW: I mean, the heat has been an enormous challenge and problem, too, right?
TENORIO: Absolutely. You know, it might end up being a benefit. The thing that hurt this tournament the most, of scheduling games to have the TV windows set up for prime time in Europe, led to playing games at noon or 3 p.m. in markets like Orlando and Charlotte and D.C. and New York during these heat waves, and it decreased the level of play. It made the viewing experience worse for fans that went into the stadiums. And FIFA is going to have to consider changing the model for the World Cup next summer. Obviously, you want those games played in prime time for a European audience when they feature the best European teams in the world, but you also want the best product on the field.
So we're already hearing discussions from FIFA about potentially, quote-unquote, "hiding" some of those afternoon games at stadiums, like in Dallas and in Atlanta, that are indoors with air conditioning, where you don't have to worry about the heat or rain delays. And I think that was a really important learning moment here for FIFA. What are we going to prioritize? Is it about the European TV audience size, or is it about the experience for the fan in America and really globally? Because if you play prime time here, that's prime time for the South American teams, for the host countries. There are a lot of benefits to not worrying so much about the European television windows.
DETROW: Let's talk about the final between PSG and Chelsea. PSG, of course, just won the Champions League, which, as you mentioned, is the preeminent club competition in the world. This is not challenging that. When I usually think about teams like this playing in the United States in the summer, I think about teams kind of in full warm-up mode, not really giving it their all. Have these two teams been kind of treating this as a high-level competition? Do you expect to see a match on the level of a big club championship in Europe?
TENORIO: I think so. You know, it is a bit odd because it's the opposite of what we're used to here in the United States when big teams come in the summer. It is a preseason tour. This is an end-of-season tour that's lasted so long that it's actually overlapping with preseason for the clubs who aren't taking...
DETROW: Yeah.
TENORIO: ...Part. And for these clubs that have pushed this far, have gotten to this point, it would be silly not to take it seriously and try to win the trophy. And we've seen both of these teams putting their best players on the field. PSG has been just as dominant as they were in the Champions League final. The way they dispatched Real Madrid in the semifinal shows this is the best team in the world. And so, you know, that is another one of the benefits for the American soccer fan. The globalization of the sport has meant that we've seen and we've had more access to the very best leagues and the very best teams in the world who want a piece of this American market.
And now you have two of the very best teams in the world playing a final in New York with this new trophy on the line, and I think you're going to see a really high-level game with a team in PSG that right now is the most dominant team in the world and may be one of the most dominant teams over a season that we've seen in some time.
DETROW: Have there been any hiccups or challenges with the wide range of travel restrictions the United States government has put in place right now?
TENORIO: Well, I think it depends on what you're talking about. Logistically, for teams, we haven't seen any hiccups, and that would be obviously incredibly disruptive to the tournament. But we have to acknowledge that the thing that makes soccer so great is the fans. And so while there might be exemptions carved out for the players and the staff and the family of the players, these tournaments aren't going to be accessible to just anyone who wants to travel to the United States and go to the games. You know, any country that's on the travel ban list - those fans aren't going to be able to come. Other countries that have two- and three-year-long wait times for visas, there are going to be a lot of fans that simply won't have enough time to go through the process. So while it might not be so disruptive to the teams, it certainly is going to change the dynamic of what fans have access to these games.
DETROW: Lastly, I know you've been keeping tabs and writing about the culture of soccer in the U.S., especially in the two years since Lionel Messi made it to MLS and playing in Miami. You know, it's been two years since that. We're a year from the World Cup. This is another key benchmark. What are you seeing? What are you looking for?
TENORIO: Yeah. I actually have a book coming out next spring about the Messi effect and what it's meant for the growth of soccer. And seeing Lionel Messi and Inter Miami advance out of the group stage of this Club World Cup, the only MLS team out of three to do so, it speaks to how much work and how much growth MLS still has to go through to get to a higher level of soccer, to be competitive globally, not just to have the competitive balance that they want so badly within their league. Messi has been an impetus for conversations around change. The World Cup next summer has been a really nice deadline for change. MLS hasn't gotten there yet.
And so I do think Major League Soccer is going to make some major changes to what that league looks like. Those changes might not come through until 2027 or 2028. But this World Cup, the Club World Cup, the Copa America last summer, Messi's arrival - all of that has pushed these owners to grow the game faster because, frankly, this is the market that everyone wants to conquer, and we're seeing that in real time. It's quite amazing for a soccer fan like myself, who grew up in a much more barren landscape of soccer popularity in the United States, that we can flash forward 20 years and be where we are...
DETROW: Yeah.
TENORIO: ...But still a long way for domestic soccer to go.
DETROW: That's Paul Tenorio, writer for The Athletic. Thanks so much.
TENORIO: Thanks for having me. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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